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    • CommentAuthorSimon
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2012
     
    13 True Ways and Shards of the Broken Sky are underway, and I want to do a city book in the style of the Kaiin Players' Guide, as well as a campaign. But what supplements would you like to see for the 13th Age?
    • CommentAuthorvonpaulus
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2012
     
    - the demon world and the rules for playing demons

    and, please Simon, speack more about the Shards . . . .
    • CommentAuthorQuinn
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2012
     
    What I'd love is something like the old Adventure Design Kit for D&D but for 13th Age. Something that gives a lot of small snbippets and advice for running games where the core is improv, but where there are events and scenes that you can plug in by flipping through a book. I'd love to see a supplement that is just that. It would be really useful in helping people run the game. Maybe it could be a part of another supplement?
  1.  
    More info about the dragons and their society for which the Dragon Empire is named after, they ought to be pretty important, but there is hardly anything about them in the beta draft so far. And rules for playing as dragons, in addition to the upcoming ones for riding them ;)

    Also something on the various potential plots and schemes, temporary alliances, pending backstabs, and other such intrigues going on between the icons and other people of importance.

    I'd also like to see a bit more optional mechanic/crunch layers for somethings, that you can add or ignore as you want (in particular, extra things for races, a bonus to ability scores and a power seems a bit light at times).
    • CommentAuthorDekar
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2012
     
    More player options. Sorta echoing what I said on another forum, but maybe some complex versions of the simple classes. More class features. And even more classes. Remember: Player books sell more than DM books.

    Optional rules for levels above 10? Doesn't seem needed at all, but could be a good late game supplement.
  2.  
    OK, there's a bunch of stuff that I think could be viable. For now I'm going to limit this to things I've actually noticed a demand for while running my single ongoing 13th Age campaign as well as the two shorter campaigns that ended with the summer (I became a player in one, while a player became the GM).

    The big thing I noticed was that, to a new player, the current implementation of the fighter wasn't particularly great - which is the exact opposite of what I expected from the class. While the design is perfect and accomplishes everything it sets out to do, the actual experience of playing that class isn't for everyone. Having every "real" ability essentially key off of dice rolls worked wildly at odds with the narrative goals of the system: where other players got to "narrate" their character before they rolled, having abilities be dependent on rolls left the player feeling like his character was extremely passive in combat (despite, mechanically, his player being extremely effective) and resulted in him asking to reinvent the character as a different class. Perhaps a build of the fighter that doesn't rely so heavily on flexible attacks (a la the paladin) or that makes flexible attacks only a small piece of the fighter's arsenal (the bard) would go over a bit better. I personally wouldn't mind having the current fighter class be reskinned as the "veteran", "dirty fighter" or "gladiator" to highlight the randomness of its abilities, with a more conservative class bearing the mantle of "fighter" in a later supplement.

    I'm personally not particularly excited about a city guide or a campaign book. To me, what's exciting about 13th Age is the absolute freedom it gives me to tell the stories I've always wanted to tell on a narrative level - our current party is composed of an unworshipped demigod from the 6th Age who was until recently enslaved by the Archmage and used as an arcane battery (my character), a former lover of the Elf Queen who is the sole survivor of a company of Elven mercenaries who's been enslaved by a sword that was enchanted by the blood of his brothers in arms who demand revenge (my friend Matt's character), a cleric of the Lord of Summer who is essentially the embodiment of the season and makes it summer wherever he is, a paladin of the King of Winter who is secretly assigned by his god to follow the cleric and keep him moving such that the seasons will progress throughout the Dragon Empire, and a ranger whose companion is secretly the World Wolf and am embodiment of the land. And this stuff was all established before a single dice was rolled, the kind of epic stuff that other fantasy roleplaying games reserved for epic level if everyone could survive for that long.

    I mean, seriously, guys - why do I need you to give me a campaign book when you've given me the tools to tell the kinds of stories I've always wanted to tell, and made a game wherein these stories aren't broken or unbalanced? Instead of giving me an interlocking series of adventures that I don't particularly need given the tools you've given me, why not give me more toys to go wild with? Mass combat rules to go with that shiny new Battle Captain would be nice, because you better believe that my first Battle Captain PC will be either a) attempting to dethrone the Crusader and take the war straight to hell itself, b) raising an army to conquer the Dragon Empire, or c) leading the armies of creation into battle against the heavens themselves so that he and his boon companions can live out the rest of his life in paradise!

    Alternatively, give me new takes on some of the existing classes; Dekar's idea that there can be more complex iterations of simple classes (and simpler iterations of more complex classes) would be awesome for new and experienced players.
  3.  
    A book of magical items would be useful to every campaign, rather than useful to that smaller subset of people who are on the market for a campaign to run. You could even expand this to something like "The 13th Grimoire" and give us tonnes of magical items; rituals both formal and improvisatory to give players guidance on how powerful rituals can be; new spells for the cleric, wizard, bard and so on to expand the scope of the class. Maybe even pacts/boons that can be swapped into the martial/magical classes as a class feature where they gain supernatural perks for the small price of selling their souls - who wouldn't want to play as a paladin of the Elf Queen, glamoured by her and forced to be the Mortal Sword of the Fey in their renewed war against the Dwarf King/Dragon Emperor/Orc Lord/High Druid, a Wizard who sold his soul for the Black Arts forbidden by even the High Arcanists, or a Fighter who is forced to shed blood once a fortnight to keep Baelon The Sin-Eater satiated in hell rather than causing Hellmouth incursions?

    If you're going to do a GM-centric book, I'd like it to include sample adventures that can be slotted into any campaign (ideally at least 4 - one for first level, then one for each tier of play that's as gonzo as Rob and Jonathan can imagine, and I'm talking the kinds of stuff that would make WotC's Elder Evils book look conservative and tame) paired with concrete GMs advice to run this game as good as humanly possible - both the way that Rob seems to run it (highly improvisatory) and the way that Simon seems to run it (with old-school attention to loot and dungeon-crawling). Although the above is the kind of book players wouldn't buy, it's broad enough that every GM of the game would want to own a copy.

    The other obvious thing I need as a GM is a dedicated monster book - while I'm happy with what I have now and I appreciate the tools to make my own monsters, as of right now I don't have enough source material to comfortably iterate on the monsters in 13th Age. My monsters are decent, but having a larger sample size would only make my homebrewing better. Again, this wouldn't be a book aimed at players, but it's broad enough that all GMs would want to own a copy.

    The theme of all of the above is that it doesn't sell me campaign/setting stuff - you guys have delivered such a good product so far that I'm confident I don't need you to give me more ideas. Rather, the tools you've given me are letting me do my craziest ideas yet in a fantasy RPG, the stuff that before 13th Age I'd file away in a "this would be great if the rules let me do some crazy narrative stuff" section of my brain to never be used. So what I as a player and GM need from you are more tools to go crazy on, not more setting fluff. That's not to say there isn't a need for setting stuff, but I really believe that you guys have something special in 13th Age, and I suspect that players are going to want more goodies fast - and that this is a better financial bet for Pelgrane than setting stuff that could only appeal to a narrower collection of existing 13th Age GMs.

    For what it's worth, I've done freelancing before and editing before. Although I'm in graduate school right now and writing a dissertation, with the right collaborators (*cough* Wade Rockett and Ben McFarland who I've worked with at KQ and Open Design *cough*) I'd even be willing to help you guys out as a freelancer on any of these ideas (and Wade has my email addy should Pelgrane want to enact any of the above). But from where I'm sitting (and at my game table), my players and I would like more options to tell the stories we've always wanted to tell at the gaming table while having fun. And there's nothing more fun than stuff that the players get to fiddle around with in the very next session/campaign. I don't think I could get my players excited about a setting book for Glitterhaegen - but a book that offers new archetypes for each class (maybe that's the word to use rather than "build" which contains 4e connotations that not every gamer would go for), a few new classes, and maybe Birthright-style domain management? Yeah, they'd give you money.
    • CommentAuthorDekar
    • CommentTimeSep 20th 2012
     
    The thing about a bestiary/monster book... I'd rather they wait a bit on that one. If they publish one soon after the game is out, and then errata the monster math after the bestiary, you will have a whole other book with the previous math. Didn't work too well for 4e, with 2+ pretty much unusable monster books.
  4.  
    For some reason I'm less concerned about the monster math than I probably should be, based solely on the fact that every iteration of monsters has worked well so far. This is an unusual bit of optimism from me, so I dunno. But what I really want from a monster book is what Rob and Jonathan are hesitant to do - codified values for types of powers, or a "bank" of types of powers that I can apply to new critters willy-nilly.
    • CommentAuthorSimon
    • CommentTimeSep 20th 2012
     
    Posted By: DekarMore player options. Sorta echoing what I said on another forum, but maybe some complex versions of the simple classes. More class features. And even more classes. Remember: Player books sell more than DM books.


    As an aside and from my own data, it's really not that clear cut that player books sell better.

    However, I like the idea of classes with more options - so for example a fighting class which has as many possibilities as the rogue.
    • CommentAuthorSimon
    • CommentTimeSep 20th 2012
     
    Posted By: DekarThe thing about a bestiary/monster book... I'd rather they wait a bit on that one. If they publish one soon after the game is out, and then errata the monster math after the bestiary, you will have a whole other book with the previous math. Didn't work too well for 4e, with 2+ pretty much unusable monster books.


    You know how we playtest things. We playtest the hell out of them. There should be no worries there. I'm actually less concerned about broken monsters than I would be about broken classes.
    • CommentAuthorDekar
    • CommentTimeSep 20th 2012
     
    Posted By: Simon
    As an aside and from my own data, it's really not that clear cut that player books sell better.

    However, I like the idea of classes with more options - so for example a fighting class which has as many possibilities as the rogue.


    Coming from D&D, it always seemed to me that the player books sold at least a little more than DM only books.


    Posted By: Simon
    You know how we playtest things. We playtest the hell out of them. There should be no worries there. I'm actually less concerned about broken monsters than I would be about broken classes.


    This is true, and it seems class math have been the most to be adjusted so far. And it seems more playtesting is being done than 4e had.

    In other ideas so this isnt an empty content post: How about more races as well? I for one like playing oddball races. (Pixie is my favorite 4e race to play.) I would say that the more odd ones can be stuck in a bestiary and labeled as optional/DM Approval Needed, but it would be nice to have options beyond the standard fantasy races, ignoring the refluffing option.
  5.  
    Yeah, the only experience I have with this is what I was told by Wolfgang at Kobold Quarterly and based on the most successful Open Design releases. What works for one smaller press might not be true for others. If it appears that 13th Age is popular with primarily DMs - and players aren't buying stuff - then all bets are off. That being said, I would still prefer stuff that's a bit more broad than setting-specific stuff that I might never use. Where a few years ago I might have been inclined to buy lots of stuff for inspiration, now I'm having to be a lot more careful with my disposable income and limit my purchases to stuff that I'll definitely use - hence the desire for stuff I can use in any game I run/play in as opposed to stuff I might use in a campaign or two if it is set in a given piece of setting.
    • CommentAuthortomjscott
    • CommentTimeSep 20th 2012
     
    For those of you interested in more player options such as classes, races, and powers, I want to let you know that Magique Productions is in the process of publishing a 13th Age compatible supplement for races and classes that also contains a whole new power set. Playtesting for this supplement is set to start in the coming weeks.
  6.  
    I would really like a book detailing the rest of the continent that the Dragon Empire is set. I really like the gazetteer-style description of the major areas and the awesome maps and would like to see that expanded for areas north, west, and south of the published map.
  7.  
    If you're going to do a world book, why not go crazy and give us the entire planet? I've always had a secret desire to run a campaign where the players are essentially conquistadores sent to the new world - it stems from a one-shot adaptation of Invasion of the Barrier Keeps where the treasure at the end was proof that the world was round and had undiscovered continents, and all of us playing begged for it to be turned into an ongoing campaign where we explored the new world.

    13th Age seems like the game to do this.
    • CommentAuthorHawke
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012
     
    I'm not as interested in the currently proposed world stuff or campaign stuff... the system just has so many strengths in building your own. However, I think what could really work if it included some kind of Armitage Files / Dracula Dossier handout focus.

    Maybe uncovering some secrets about a 14th icon or an original version of one of the icons (Prince of Shadows could also work as-is). The adventure should be more investigating some deep rooted secret, previously unknown cult, and get a lot of heat from existing icons and have some big choices. Good quality handouts for the players as they achieve various goals. Include lots of good "fail it forward" examples so they can obtain the core info they need but as they stumble some fun side adventures could occur.
    • CommentAuthorRSIxidor
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012 edited
     
    I would rather like a nice player-only supplement.

    I don't think I really want anything like themes/prestige class/paragon paths. I would want new talent options for classes and new classes and new races. Feats as well, but keep the current concept of feats that power up your existing abilities and only a few feats that give you new ability (like the reach thing), Add some items in here as well, I suppose. I can't decide if that should be more proper in a GM book, though.

    And then some more 'Dragon Empire' content in each book to give some context for the new options.

    EDIT: After doing some thinking, a couple of things I'd rather like to see:
    Talents for Paladins and Clerics that more closely tie them to either the Priestess or the Crusader
    An Artificer
    Talents for the Ranger that allow him to control enemies somehow, buffs, debuffs, effects, etc (think 4th edition Hunter and Seeker)
    •  
      CommentAuthorchaosfang
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2012
     
    Yeah, I too would like a supplement that expands upon talents, but making it REALLY difficult to make a so-called min/max character. Simple classes with the option to be not so simple is fine as well -- I'm thinking of barbarians getting into their tribal roots sort of thing, paladins being a bit more templar, and rangers with a bit more expansion on the animal companion and things-you-can-do-with-two-blades bit -- as well as other stuff that would get things going on the devious level, like poison effects for in-combat (I think I'd like a more freeform approach to poisons in general, but the option to use some of them in-combat is nice), snares [the improv table works for now, but giving PCs the option to make their own snares a bit more reliably sings ranger/rogue], and other optional stuff.
    • CommentAuthoraikimiller
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2012 edited
     
    I really like the idea of an expanded monster manual. Something with both monster stats, and a bit of write up about the monster's place in the world, done in a similiar style to the main book- where it gives you options, and ideas, and how the different designers use things differently.

    As far as player books go- a few more options for the simpler classes would be cool. However, one of the beautiful things about 13th age is that the simplicity of the rules light system makes it such an easy thing to run. Adding more books of classes and things (like 4e did) would get pretty overbearing quickly, and I'd rather not see this game go the same way. Instead- possibly more valuable would be guidelines and advice on "hacking" the classes to make them do what you want in your game, and to help your players realize their vision for the character (although this shouldn't be a "rules system", and should emphasize the collaberative effort between player and DM).

    For me, the bottom line is that what I love about 13th age is that it allows me to flex my creative muscles. It's a rules light system I can design onto if I want something more, that inherently emphasizes collaberative story telling. For my money, I'd like to see support books continue this ideology, rather than be based around the 4e model of giving players an ever increasing number of mechanical options.

    The Icon dice is another area that I think has room for expansion. Particularly given it's the thing that is completely different from what most of us are used to using, and so mechanical and thematic information and ideas on how to utilize them in your story telling to the fullest extent could be good to have as well.

    As just an idea in a different direction, it could be very cool to have each book released revolve around one (or a few) of the icons. Or be an implementation of a New (or Old) icon. e.g. A crusader themed book, which could give new options for classes likely to be associated with the crusader, expand upon the locations important to the crusader, etc.
  8.  
    I think the Icon-themed sourcebooks are a good idea, although it might be better to group them - "Good" Icons in one book, "Unaligned" in a second, and "Evil" in a third.

    For what it's worth, I didn't think class glut was the problem with 4e's expansions; Essentials muddying the water was what caused me to stop buying material for the game since I didn't like the new standard for classes. When I went back to 4e as a player a few years ago, the thing that killed the system for me was the number of feats moreso than the number of classes. For the most part, classes were archetypal and allowed us to tell a variety of different stories - but the feats were impossibly unwieldy. I like 13th Age's approach a great deal, and as long as the classes are archetypal I will be happy to plunk down money.

    But in the interest of honesty, the main classes that are missing from the game, now, are the Avenger and the Invoker - the last two classes from 4e that really seemed to add to the stories we told while being fun to play. I've reskinned a bard to be a martial-style munitions expert like Fiddler from the Malazan Cycle of books, but maybe that sort of "Sapper" style class would be the way to crack the "martial controller" egg that WotC never could figure out.
    • CommentAuthorGeorge
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: aikimiller However, one of the beautiful things about 13th age is that the simplicity of the rules light system makes it such an easy thing to run. Adding more books of classes and things (like 4e did) would get pretty overbearing quickly, and I'd rather not see this game go the same way.

    [...]

    For me, the bottom line is that what I love about 13th age is that it allows me to flex my creative muscles. It's a rules light system I can design onto if I want something more, that inherently emphasizes collaberative story telling. For my money, I'd like to see support books continue this ideology, rather than be based around the 4e model of giving players an ever increasing number of mechanical options.


    I second these comments. This ideology is the reason I am planning for 13th Age to be my main fantasy game.

    I used to play AD&D 2nd ed. back in high school. What I've always found difficult in D&D's many incarnations was that the "crunch" often forced so many assumptions on the narrative. E.g. that you have to have a healer in the party etc.

    I would hate it if the 13th age was similarly trapped-by-crunch. In some versions of D&D, the fact that you have mountains of feats and prestige classes, mean that the crunch becomes more and more complex. And the more complex it is, the more difficult it is for the GM to control the impact it has on the fictional world.

    The reason I was drawn to the game is because i feel it empowers GMs to create stories, with the maths helping them out rather than being imposed on them and eventually hindering them.

    Writing this, I realised that another reason I was attracted to the game was the fact that it's designers have built into it a lot of the assumptions that are also very important to me as a gm (i.e. NPCs shouldn't overshadow the players, magic items should never be something trivial and lots more).
    • CommentAuthorFabrice
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2012
     
    It maybe can not be sold as a supplement, but I would love guidelines to convert existing 3e and 4e material.

    I have purchased lots of books (and will keep buying more) from WotC and others but these days I have no free time to spend on adapting and tweaking. So if somebody was to prepare, test and publish guidelines, I would gladly compensate him / her for the effort.
    • CommentAuthorSimon
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2012
     
    Posted By: FabriceIt maybe can not be sold as a supplement, but I would love guidelines to convert existing 3e and 4e material.

    I have purchased lots of books (and will keep buying more) from WotC and others but these days I have no free time to spend on adapting and tweaking. So if somebody was to prepare, test and publish guidelines, I would gladly compensate him / her for the effort.


    This sounds like an excellent idea for a 3rd party publisher, though I'll certainly ask if anyone in house is willing to do this.
    • CommentAuthorRSIxidor
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: Simon
    Posted By: FabriceIt maybe can not be sold as a supplement, but I would love guidelines to convert existing 3e and 4e material.

    I have purchased lots of books (and will keep buying more) from WotC and others but these days I have no free time to spend on adapting and tweaking. So if somebody was to prepare, test and publish guidelines, I would gladly compensate him / her for the effort.


    This sounds like an excellent idea for a 3rd party publisher, though I'll certainly ask if anyone in house is willing to do this.


    If I didn't have a day job, I'd be all over the 4e conversions. I might still try it as a side project, on a blog or something.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchaosfang
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2012
     
    Posted By: Simon
    Posted By: FabriceIt maybe can not be sold as a supplement, but I would love guidelines to convert existing 3e and 4e material.

    I have purchased lots of books (and will keep buying more) from WotC and others but these days I have no free time to spend on adapting and tweaking. So if somebody was to prepare, test and publish guidelines, I would gladly compensate him / her for the effort.


    This sounds like an excellent idea for a 3rd party publisher, though I'll certainly ask if anyone in house is willing to do this.


    4E's actually quite easy to translate because a lot of the underlying mechanics in 13th Age can be found in 4E as well (I already did it myself when I was converting the 4E warden to 13th Age). The only thing that isn't that easy to do is 3.x, but that's primarily because the Full Action isn't implemented in 13th Age, combined with feat trees and other stuff that make it more difficult to translate. But as far as I can tell, because 3E, 4E and 13th Age all roughly have the same action economy, and area effects can easily be changed to

    1. "[1d3/1d6/1d8/2d4] [nearby/far away] [creatures/enemies/allies] that are [nearby/far away from] each other",

    2. close burst attacks can be changed to "each [creature/enemy/ally] [engaged to/nearby] you", and

    3. close blast attacks can be changed to "(touch spell) [1d3/1d6/1d8/2d4] nearby [creatures/enemies/allies] that are nearby each other".



    It should be a simple, albeit time-consuming effort to translate most effects. 4E powers may require heavier tweaking due to the fact that some higher level powers (especially for some pre-PHB 3 books) were simply enhanced copies of lower level powers.
    • CommentAuthorEarthorn
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2012
     
    I'd like to see a supplement adding nature or fey oriented options for characters: for instance, races like pixie or treant (player appropriate versions). I'm also already missing 4E's Warden-- the supernaturally tough, self-buffing/polymorphing, enemy-locking-down defender of nature. I see Wardens as placing themselves in front of those they protects like an oak, a boulder, or a glacier.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchaosfang
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2012
     
    Posted By: EarthornI'd like to see a supplement adding nature or fey oriented options for characters: for instance, races like pixie or treant (player appropriate versions). I'm also already missing 4E's Warden-- the supernaturally tough, self-buffing/polymorphing, enemy-locking-down defender of nature. I see Wardens as placing themselves in front of those they protects like an oak, a boulder, or a glacier.

    Would this help?

    Warden
    NOTE: Refluff Fighter, but add the following talents:

    Font of Life
    You can save against one effect that a save can end at the start of your turn instead of at the end of your turn.
    (Adventurer Feat): You can attempt the save again at the end of your turn, if you failed it earlier this turn.
    (Champion Feat): Once per day, you can automatically succeed with one saving throw as if you rolled a natural 20.
    (Epic Feat): You can save against two effects, instead of one.

    Guardian Might
    You are naturally augmented by nature. Choose one of the following benefits:
    Earthstrength: Once per battle, you gain a +4 to AC until the end of your next turn when you're rallying.
    Wildblood: Once per battle, enemies engaged with you are dazed until the end of your next turn when you're rallying.
    Lifespirit: once per battle, an ally nearby can spend a recovery and attempt a saving throw against an effect that a save can end when you're rallying.
    Stormheart: once per battle, you can force each enemy engaged with you to disengage and lose their movement actions until the end of their next turn.

    Warden's Fury
    Whenever an enemy you've engaged attempts to attack an ally, as an interrupt you can make a basic attack against the enemy's PD, and on a hit that enemy takes a -4 to defenses until the start of its next turn.

    Warden's Grasp
    Whenever a nearby enemy attempts to attack an ally, as an interrupt you can cause that enemy to lose its move actions until the end of its turn.

    Gift of the High Druid (Fighter Talent Name: Battlemaster's Stance)
    You are able to transcend your physical self, and transform into something... else. Choose one of the following benefits, all of which are once per day, last until the end of the encounter, and require a quick action to trigger:
    Form of the Fearsome Ram: enemies you hit automatically disengage from you and any other creature they were engaged with (as if they were violently pushed back), and once during the battle, you can force an enemy to lose its next move action as part of an attack that successfully hit.
    Form of the Relentless Panther: you do not have to roll for disengage checks, and once during the battle, you can inflict ongoing damage equal to the current escalation die as part of an attack that successfully hit.
    Form of the Willow Sentinel: enemies cannot force you to disengage, and allies engaged with you gain +2 to their PD.
    Form of Winter's Herald: you gain resistance value 5 cold, and once during the battle, you can make a basic attack against each enemy engaged with you, but each hit deals half damage and forces the enemy to roll 16+ on their disengage checks (save ends).


    Also, add the following maneuvers (no level specified):

    Strength of Stone
    Flexible Melee Attack
    Triggering Roll: 16+
    Effect: You gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier.
    (Champion feat): You can chose not to gain temporary hit points, but instead add your Constitution modifier to the damage of the triggering attack. Doing so will cause you to lose all your temporary hit points.

    Thorn Strike
    Flexible Ranged Attack
    Triggering Roll: Any even hit with an attack against a nearby foe
    Effect: That foe is forcefully pulled towards you, and is now engaged with you.

    Weight of Earth
    Flexible Melee Attack
    Triggering Roll: Any odd hit
    Effect: The creature you hit needs to roll a 16+ on his next disengage attempt, instead of an 11+
    (Champion feat): Once per day for an entire encounter, you can prevent an enemy from disengaging when you trigger this maneuver.


    I think the translation can continue from there :)
    • CommentAuthorEarthorn
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: chaosfang
    Posted By: EarthornI'd like to see a supplement adding nature or fey oriented options for characters: for instance, races like pixie or treant (player appropriate versions). I'm also already missing 4E's Warden-- the supernaturally tough, self-buffing/polymorphing, enemy-locking-down defender of nature. I see Wardens as placing themselves in front of those they protects like an oak, a boulder, or a glacier.

    Would this help?

    Warden
    NOTE: Refluff Fighter, but add the following talents:

    Font of Life
    You can save against one effect that a save can end at the start of your turn instead of at the end of your turn.
    (Adventurer Feat):You can attempt the save again at the end of your turn, if you failed it earlier this turn.
    (Champion Feat):Once per day, you can automatically succeed with one saving throw as if you rolled a natural 20.
    (Epic Feat):You can save against two effects, instead of one.

    Guardian Might
    You are naturally augmented by nature. Choose one of the following benefits:
    Earthstrength: Once per battle, you gain a +4 to AC until the end of your next turn when you're rallying.
    Wildblood: Once per battle, enemies engaged with you are dazed until the end of your next turn when you're rallying.
    Lifespirit: once per battle, an ally nearby can spend a recovery and attempt a saving throw against an effect that a save can end when you're rallying.
    Stormheart: once per battle, you can force each enemy engaged with you to disengage and lose their movement actions until the end of their next turn.

    Warden's Fury
    Whenever an enemy you've engaged attempts to attack an ally, as an interrupt you can make a basic attack against the enemy's PD, and on a hit that enemy takes a -4 to defenses until the start of its next turn.

    Warden's Grasp
    Whenever a nearby enemy attempts to attack an ally, as an interrupt you can cause that enemy to lose its move actions until the end of its turn.

    Gift of the High Druid(Fighter Talent Name: Battlemaster's Stance)
    You are able to transcend your physical self, and transform into something... else. Choose one of the following benefits, all of which are once per day, last until the end of the encounter, and require a quick action to trigger:
    Form of the Fearsome Ram: enemies you hit automatically disengage from you and any other creature they were engaged with (as if they were violently pushed back), and once during the battle, you can force an enemy to lose its next move action as part of an attack that successfully hit.
    Form of the Relentless Panther: you do not have to roll for disengage checks, and once during the battle, you can inflict ongoing damage equal to the current escalation die as part of an attack that successfully hit.
    Form of the Willow Sentinel: enemies cannot force you to disengage, and allies engaged with you gain +2 to their PD.
    Form of Winter's Herald: you gain resistance value 5 cold, and once during the battle, you can make a basic attack against each enemy engaged with you, but each hit deals half damage and forces the enemy to roll 16+ on their disengage checks (save ends).


    Also, add the following maneuvers (no level specified):

    Strength of Stone
    Flexible Melee Attack
    Triggering Roll:16+
    Effect:You gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier.
    (Champion feat): You can chose not to gain temporary hit points, but instead add your Constitution modifier to the damage of the triggering attack. Doing so will cause you to lose all your temporary hit points.

    Thorn Strike
    Flexible Ranged Attack
    Triggering Roll:Any even hit with an attack against a nearby foe
    Effect:That foe is forcefully pulled towards you, and is now engaged with you.

    Weight of Earth
    Flexible Melee Attack
    Triggering Roll:Any odd hit
    Effect:The creature you hit needs to roll a 16+ on his next disengage attempt, instead of an 11+
    (Champion feat):Once per day for an entire encounter, you can prevent an enemy from disengaging when you trigger this maneuver.


    I think the translation can continue from there :)


    Very well done conversion!

    However, I'd prefer a less direct port, with it's own mechanics.

    Darned if I know what those mechanics are, though (yet).
    • CommentAuthorSimon
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2012
     
    @chaosfang It would be great if you started a conversion thread.
    • CommentAuthorRSIxidor
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2012
     
    After being in here, I started working on an Artificer. It's a bit of a mess so far. I'm not going for the direct mechanical translation, but rather the thematic translation, though a few powers (Punishing Eye) I just really feel should come along for the ride.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchaosfang
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2012
     
    Posted By: Simon@chaosfang It would be great if you started a conversion thread.
    That's going to be a pretty long thread (or short, depending if I'm going to include powers or not), even if it's just for D&D 4E. But let's see what I can pull off :) Maybe reserve most of the power conversions for a different thread from a class conversion, although just like how I turned dailies into talents, I may end up taking a few powers and turn them into talents, if and when they're applicable.

    Posted By: EarthornVery well done conversion!

    However, I'd prefer a less direct port, with it's own mechanics.

    Darned if I know what those mechanics are, though (yet).
    I'm not that creative (yet), although if there's reason for the Warden to be more than a Fighter empowered by the High Druid -- or a Ranger with talents that allow him to be much more Druid-like or use two-handed melee weapons more effectively -- I might be compelled to check other RPGs for inspiration on how to make the Warden a different class altogether :)
    • CommentAuthorEarthorn
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2012
     
    There is a 13th Age compatible book of items called the Reliquary now on Kickstarter.
    •  
      CommentAuthortbaker
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2012
     
    Posted By: EarthornThere is a 13th Age compatible book of items called the Reliquary now on Kickstarter.

    Would you please provide a link?
    • CommentAuthorAdam Dray
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2012
     
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1857811795/the-reliquary
    •  
      CommentAuthortbaker
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2012
     
    Posted By: Adam Drayhttp://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1857811795/the-reliquary

    These look fantastic. I'm in!
    • CommentAuthorpadraigmac
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2012
     
    Online character builder.

    I can't emphasize enough how much better life is when the math is done for you and the options are laid out logically as you build your character. Not to disparage people that like to do this sort of thing by hand but my group have always found it so much easier to create and level up characters using a character builder. The 4e one isn't perfect but for my money it's a lot better than doing without. And, hey, you can probably charge a little for it. Or not.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchaosfang
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    Posted By: padraigmacOnline character builder.

    I can't emphasize enough how much better life is when the math is done for you and the options are laid out logically as you build your character. Not to disparage people that like to do this sort of thing by hand but my group have always found it so much easier to create and level up characters using a character builder. The 4e one isn't perfect but for my money it's a lot better than doing without. And, hey, you can probably charge a little for it. Or not.
    It's not a supplement, but it's an idea worth checking out anyway :) I already made a Random Gamma World 7E Character Generator before (doesn't have the expansion stuff though), and I've already made an Excel file that helps me with the stats and what not, so I could probably make my own character builder for 13th Age as soon as I get my hands on the proper materials.
    • CommentAuthorSimon
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    Posted By: padraigmacOnline character builder.

    I can't emphasize enough how much better life is when the math is done for you and the options are laid out logically as you build your character. Not to disparage people that like to do this sort of thing by hand but my group have always found it so much easier to create and level up characters using a character builder. The 4e one isn't perfect but for my money it's a lot better than doing without. And, hey, you can probably charge a little for it. Or not.


    We've discussed this. I'd really rather not charge for such a thing, but if we produced it in-house it would have to look splendid, and we don't have the resources available to do it justice. So, it's something for us to look at again in a few months.
    • CommentAuthorpadraigmac
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012 edited
     
    Sounds like a Kickstarter project to me! I'd certainly chip in cause I'm lazy and so is my entire group.
    • CommentAuthortomjscott
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012 edited
     
    Unless I'm very much mistaken, one of the restrictions of the OGL is that you are not allowed to do things like character builders or computer games. Might want to check on that before starting such a project.

    Further checking and I think maybe that was the GSL not OGL. I had thought it applied to both so maybe I'm wrong there.
    •  
      CommentAuthorchaosfang
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012
     
    Either way, it's not that hard to plot everything on an Excel sheet or what not, and someone with access to the books and Notepad could probably make a Javascript-based calculator within a couple of days, although any additional functions like saving character info or what not could be reason enough to make it a Kickstarter project.
    • CommentAuthorJesterOC
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2012
     
    I too was just discussing on G+ that 13th Age's design choice to have a player's game mechanic complexity restricted to the character class creates the need to have more character classes with different complexity levels. Which means that to my mind, class based "splat books" would be welcome at my table.

    For Example:
    For us the fighter was pitch perfect for my wife and the ranger is great for my kid. But if they want to play other characters my kid could go Barbarian, and perhaps fighter, but I doubt my wife would want the simplicity of the ranger, or Barbarian, or the complexity of the Rouge.

    I am looking forward to the new classes in the expansion, and also grabbed the nightfall kickstarter mainly because of the three new classes,
  9.  
    One thing that I would like to point out is that, the way the .pdf is laid out, it's really difficult (if not impossible in some cases) to cut and past stuff from the document into a Microsoft Word file (for, say, monster encounters). Selecting text from one column sometimes selects text from all of the next column and mixes them up in Word.

    Now, this is a minor problem, and will be alleviated when I have a hardcopy of the book printed in front of me and I can just type easily. And, I suspect, the above is good insofar as it makes piracy inconvenient or labor-intensive. But I do wish I could cut and paste stuff so that I could hack things more easily into documents that I can then make my players read. Although some are, no doubt, into the game enough to read the whole book, many would rather read something super duper short (like, say, a few paragraphs on Horizon that I've modded).

    So perhaps, in the end, the answer will be a wiki of some sort maintained by Pelgrane for the flavor and for monsters. I would actually be more than willing to give you guys $30 for a Monsterpedia program that was like Wizards of the Coast's Monster Builder - it contains every monster published for 13th Age, with features for customizing monsters and exporting them to others/importing others' monsters to you.

    Of course, the above would be tough because it requires software design. But I have to believe that Pelgrane, whose sister company is Profantasy Software, would be uniquely positioned to do this extremely well given the expertise required at Profantasy to keep Campaign Cartographer going strong.
  10.  
    My wishes for a 13th Age DM screen.

    One with the same physical design as the 4e D&D screen. Shorter rather than tall.

    Want the information that would be useful to creating monsters on the fly, DCs for different tier environments, trap stats. But anything that I would access during combat I would want on either the two outside panels or along the bottom of the two inside panels (I use index cards draped on top of the screen to track initiative).
    • CommentAuthorOlfrick
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2012 edited
     
    I'm not sure I really get the fascination with additional classes and options for classes that seems to be a core of this thread. I tend to think that once 13 true ways is out there'll be plenty of classes.

    If anyone wants more classes / options / mechanical crunch there are games out there for them already (they should probably be playing 4E or Pathfinder). I see a danger in taking 13th Age and losing the slimmed down streamlining that it currently has and bloating it into just another d20 OGL game like all the others.

    If a mechanic was to be added to give more options then it should probably be broad like the "One Unique Thing" or Fate System's Aspects, rather than the strictly delineated "here's another 87 Feats for you to choose from" that we've all seen before...
    • CommentAuthorSimon
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2012
     
    @olfrick So what would you like to see?
    • CommentAuthorOlfrick
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2012
     
    OK, so it seems Simon's job is to go around asking the really _hard_ questions.

    I'd like to see 13th Age not try and compete with 4E, Pathfinder or whatever D&D Next gets called when it finally rises and starts to walk the earth in terms of burying people with strongly defined player options.

    I like the "backgrounds" approach, no more problems with not having enough skill points to get your concept accross. Which fits nicely with the "please rename this, don't be boring" aspect of the various spell lists. I see this as the way to go instead of releasing 27 different character classes for people that don't, quite, want to play a fighter. (You can't compete with Wizards et.al. in this regard without a comparable release schedule). I mentioned FATE aspects as they're a means to define a <Tall>, <Short Tempered> fighter, that was <Born to the Saddle> and is a <Hunter in Dark Places> without needing anything in character generation more complicated than "make up some cool sounding aspects". Maybe you could tie this sort of thing in with the "please rename this feat/spell/background" and give some guidance in creating feats/spells/etc. so that people can personalise their (fighter or whatever) while avoiding fixed options.

    I'm starting to think I'm getting incoherent. I also think I'm agreeing with people that want more character options but disagreeing with how I'd like to see them implemented. Maybe you could highlight the versatility/variability that already exists in the backgrounds idea by suggesting worked examples of well known fantasy characters (possibly that's more of a forum thread, give me a mo' I'll get on that).

    I would probably have voted for painting Glitterhaegen if it was allowed (I'm guessing that this is the city book you mentioned at the top of this thread). More background on a couple of the Koru Behemoths and maybe a 5 mile wide stripe along (part of) the migration route would be an interesting variation on the region books and campaign guides you usually get. The Forgotten Realms have aspects and areas that are different from Glorantha and/or Barsaive, campaign guide type books about the bits of the Dragon Empire and it's surroundings that are different from other fantasy kingdoms would probably get my vote.
  11.  
    Posted By: Olfrick
    I'm starting to think I'm getting incoherent. I also think I'm agreeing with people that want more character options but disagreeing with how I'd like to see them implemented. Maybe you could highlight the versatility/variability that already exists in the backgrounds idea by suggesting worked examples of well known fantasy characters (possibly that's more of a forum thread, give me a mo' I'll get on that).


    The more I think about a product laser-focused on backgrounds, the more viable and attractive it sounds to me. In my own 13th Age campaign, I find myself giving my players a lot of guidance on making the most of their backgrounds. "Thievery" is an okay background, but "Middle-ranking thief in the Glitterhaegen Thieves' Guild" opens up many, many more skill check possibilities. So a book of guidance and examples would be pretty great, especially if it suggests ways to connect them tightly with the setting.
  12.  
    Contra olfrick, one thing I can say that I explicitly want is for 13th Age to fill the niche of a narrativist fantasy roleplaying game now that 4e is going the way of the dodo. This seems to be a common attitude among the Goons at Something Awful, too. Now, it's worth pointing out that people who actually liked 4e have a far different view of what this entails than people who didn't like 4e; something that should be obvious given the success of 13 True Ways to meet its Kickstarter goals (and that can be seen in reading Simon's surprise that 4e fans were into 13th Age on the SA Forums).

    I'm happy to unpack what that means in this thread if that isn't apparent from prior posts.

    Wade, one thing I'd suggest is that - rather than a sourcebook - couldn't we just put those blog posts describing backgrounds into the Core Rules and call it a day? Because all I needed were those blog posts from during the playtest about flavor being part of a background to grok the best way to do these.